3 Reasons Why Joe Rogan’s Interview of Wes Huff Was Memorable

Wes “the Buff” Huff and Joe “Glory” Rogan

The interview on the Joe Rogan show of Canadian Christian apologist and historian, Wes Huff, was a triumph. And I mean that without any sense of hubris. It ticked a lot of boxes. And it did so in a way that has had more cut-through than just about any apologetic moment (in the positive) that I can remember in the recent past.

For those of you who do not know Huff, here’s a link to his site.  He has a sizeable following in the hundreds of “ks” on both Instagram and Youtube. So he’s no small fry in Christian circles.  But that’s the operative, “in Christian circles”.  This interview changed that up big-time.

So here are three reasons it’s a great interview, particularly in terms of what it’s projected gospel/apologetic reach could be.

1.Wes Huff Himself

Stands to reason, doesn’t it? In this interview Wes Huff is brilliant in terms of his academic, biblical and historical knowledge; his ability to honour his interlocutor; and his generous tone towards those who may disagree.

Let’s remember, this interview only got up and running because of the storm around a previous interview he had with well-known writer, speaker, – and let’s face it –  conspiracy theorist, Billy Carson on another Christian site.

Carson and Huff were invited guests on another podcast (you can view it here on Huff’s site, as Carson for some reason isn’t keen for it to be public). Huff calmly and deftly picks apart Carson’s un-researched biases, as well as his unscholarly assumptions about the ancient biblical manuscripts. As someone who claims to be an expert on ancient documents, Carson was woefully exposed.

But not ridiculed.

Huff was clear, calm, collected and strong.  In the negative, he didn’t let Carson off the hook when Carson made claims he could not back up. And in the positive, he offered conclusive evidence to back up his own views, even reaching over for text books that explicitly refuted things that Carson was saying. Those moments were Youtube gold.

Carson walked out of the interview early, after putting on his sunglasses, probably to hide. He’s now suing Huff. Go figure.

And on Rogan, Huff was the same, presenting the credible evidence for the gospel’s historicity, calmly, intelligently and in good humour.

And not over-egging the cake. Huff’s real strength was that he admitted when historical moments may be hard to pin down. He unpacked the texts of Scripture carefully, positing differing views and acknowledging that some things were hard to determine. Yet he did what I believe all good apologists do: he built an ecosystem that makes belief not only possible, but sustainable.

Huff is proof that, although many an apologetic argument in this current anxious age has switched from issues of reliability and historicity to issues of meaning and purpose, you cannot have one without the other.

After all, all sorts of “woo-woo” can offer you meaning and purpose, but if they cannot be backed up by reality or reliability, then they are on shaky ground. There is a good chance they cannot hold the weight they promise to hold.

Oh, and Huff looks buffed. His biceps held their own on that show. (Makes mental note to sign up for gym before starting Stephen McAlpine Youtube show).

2. Joe Rogan Himself

I spoke at a well-heeled Sydney private school before Christmas. I talked about Jesus, about atheism, about all sorts of things. Not one of the boys (and they were well-read, final year students) had ever heard of Richard Dawkins. Not one of them. The old school atheist is dead in the water even before he is dead in the ground. Dawkins’ condescending, old-school-tie style of put-downs, is so 2005.

And Rogan? He’s the present and the future. People are sick of the sneer against Christianity, especially with the current “vibe” as English historian Niall Ferguson puts it. Ferguson means that with the return of conservative politics around the world, the tide has turned against an anti-Christian progressive mood that shouted down any opposition to its cause as homophobic, ignorant or bigoted.

So is Christianity back in a big way? Not so fast There are only 3.4million views of this interview because Joe Rogan is the interviewer. This is the man who invited Donald Trump onto his show and got 50 million views. An interview which probably shaped the election result, and at the same time demonstrated conclusively that the legacy media is old news.

And of course, Rogan is also the interviewer who invited Kamala Harris onto his show, and her response (my script, my time frame, my location) proved that she thought Rogan needed her more than she needed Rogan. Big mistake.

Rogan has huge reach. And one of the reasons he has huge reach (though not the only reason, but more of that later), is that he takes a genuine interest in every guest and what they have to say, almost to a fault. He often allows people on the show that I think are on the far end of crazy. But he’s a man who never tries to game his subjects or mock them on air. He is genuinely trying to be all things to all people.

For those of you who say he is “right wing”, don’t forget, he endorsed left-wing anti-establishment old-timer Bernie Sanders in 2020, and has in the past labelled Christianity as “bs”.

Now, however, after having a gut-full of gotcha moments on air, (see the famous Kathy Newman train-wreck interview of Jordan Peterson that set his star on its course), people are ready for an interviewer to actually give some oxygen to their interviewee. To take them more seriously than they take themselves.

So Rogan gets the new media. But that’s because he gets people. He knows what they want and how they want it.  He is able to package conversations and put them out there in quick time.

3. Everyone Else

And of course the main reason this is such a good interview is that for once the apologetic argument gets outside the Christian bubble.  The new media has huge reach, and Christians will have to learn how to use it well.

The well-known Australian journalist,  foreign editor of The Australian newspaper, Greg Sheridan, wrote several books about Christianity. He commented to me that he liked our Christian books about Jesus and his historicity, but equally, he lamented the “ghetto” of the Christian bookshop.

Sheridan said he wanted secular people who were at airports to pick up his books and read them on the plane. There’s next to zero chance they’ll walk into Koorong (Australia’s premier Christian bookstore) in the off chance they might find something interesting for their next flight. And there’s next to no chance that the airport bookshop will sell a Koorong best-seller (no, not even mine!). But Sheridan is a highly regarded secular figure, and his books have ended up being general best-sellers.

You see, when it comes to our general reach as Christians we are, in the immortal words of the singer Tom Waits self-loathing lament “Big In Japan.” So no matter how good our product, – and we believe it’s the best product – if you can’t get it out there, you might as well be saying nothing.

So as I said, Huff’s Youtube interview on Rogan’s show has more than 3.4 million views at the time of writing. And it only went up three days prior to me writing this.

And just look at some of the comments. They are every professional apologists’ dream:

I’m not a Christian, but I do appreciate the historicity of Christianity and I find Wes to be an excellent representative of his faith. Great episode, thanks Joe and Wes!

For the past week I had a pulling to Christ. I don’t consider myself an atheist, more so an agnostic. I’ve been going through a lot in life lately which brought me to learning more about this and it’s been on my mind so much everyday. Then Joe drops this for all of us. I think I’m on the right path.

I’m not even Christian nor religious, yet I’ve never anticipated an episode more than this! Wes you are a true gentlemen and scholar! Thank you for showing that we can still kill with kindness.

Two words spring to mind here: grace AND truth.  In terms of his witness, Wes followed his Lord, King Jesus.  He did exactly what was required of him from 1Peter3:15-16:

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behaviour in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

So many people were able to see that, contrary to what is so often presented or projected, Christianity’s leaders and thinkers can be clear, scholarly, faithful and generous.

Billy Carson got owned by Huff, not because Huff wrestled him to the ground or shouted all over the top of him, but because Carson’s arguments didn’t stand up to scrutiny. He was the one who started to swing haymakers and then left the podcast early.

I believe that with the current seismic shifts in culture, there is a tsunami of interest in spiritual matters, and especially in Christ.  But the way that people will be reached might be somewhat different.

It might take a rabbit hole of Youtube videos before people land on this gem. It might take a few years before they darken the door of a church. We’ve had many a lament about the influence of social media (thank you Jonathan Haidt), but for those with zero Christian background and zero Christian friends or family, videos like this one might just be the gateway drug to the gospel.

And they may not be the kind of people who fit church neatly. Rogan dropped the “f-bomb” quite a few times in the interview (along with a whole lot of “wows” as Glen Scrivener points out in his excellent analysis of the show).

So much of our apologetics has been directed towards the middle-class, well-educated types who may have a potty mouth on the freeway in the privacy of their car, but who would shrivel up and die if caught dropping the “f-bomb” at work.

Rogan reaches the sweary, sweaty types who are generally left unreached by our apologetics. And Huff presented the gospel to them in a concise, brave and clear-eyed manner (and in a black tee!). More power to the Huff for that.

*A Word of Caution

Of course, there is something of a little cloud on the horizon in terms of the sudden popularity of a more muscular Christianity than in the recent past. And it’s got to do with Rogan himself.  Or more to the point his interest in Christianity and Christian things, as opposed to any proximity to Christ.

Sure the cloud may only be as big as a man’s fist, but it is on the horizon. And it’s this: Christianity as an idea may be suddenly  popular again. We see it with recent converts. We see it with intellectuals. I am a big fan of the likes of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and her husband, the aforementioned Niall Ferguson, and their Christian stories.  I’m also constantly amazed by Russell Brand’s faith commitment. Whoever next, Zuckerberg?

But Rogan’s discussion with Huff about the resurrection didn’t get to the challenge that we see in Acts 17 in Athens. And that’s fine – it wasn’t intended to.

Yet what is the description of the Athenian citizens in that chapter as Paul is about to present the gospel in the Areopagus?:

Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?  You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.” (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.) Acts 17:21ff

Rogan is a modern day Athenian. Open-minded, curious, always happy to have someone on his show to tell his audience some new thing or to listen to the latest ideas. Rogan is super happy to have someone on his show who will deliver the goods. And deliver the audience that keeps his show paying him the big bucks.

But somewhere along the line, if Joe is to be truly wowed by the gospel, he will have to come to this crossroads, as will everyone in the West who has suddenly discovered that perhaps Christianity isn’t the cultural pariah the progressives made it out to be. And that perhaps our whole culture and its human rights that so many take for granted, was grounded in Christian ideas.

Joe – and everyone who listens to him – will have to come to this challenge, the challenge that Paul finishes with in Acts 17:

Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.  For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead. (Acts 17:29-31)

It’s not the historicity of the Bible that will have to wow Joe, but the necessity of Jesus. It’s not simply the historical proof of the resurrection that will have to impress him, but the implications of the resurrection for his eternal destiny.  And there’s more to the package: the necessity of repentance, the necessity of sins forgiven, the necessity of responding to Jesus in faith and humility and a transformed life.

Will Joe Rogan get there? Perhaps. But his latest interview is with Mark Zuckerberg, and it was put up twelve hours ago from the time of my writing and the viewing count is well on its way to Huff numbers already.

Wes Huff has done a brilliant job, but it doesn’t mean that it won’t become a footnote in Rogan’s Youtube history. My prayer is that it won’t. And that the grace and truth Wes Huff expressed will result in Joe Rogan going on a search for Jesus himself. Because, as I said, this is the man who endorsed Bernie Sanders four short years ago.

But for now, I’m thankful for Wes Huff, and for the platform Joe Rogan gave him. It was indeed memorable.